I need a status update for mattermost. From a securirty standpoint, it is out of date and a liability. In the immediate terms, it needs an SSL protocol update and likely an OS refresh.
The EF does not have the resources to take on this service. If the current owner cannot assume its continuity, we must plan on shutting it down.
I agree something has to be done! I will work on an OS upgrade today.
Two things crossed my mind in any case:
a) Mattermost didn't take off as hoped for. The EF now uses Slack, and Mattermost seems to emphasize their OpenSource model. At the same time Matrix seems to have a lot more adoption in "open source chat" anyway.
b) SSO/OpenIDConnect/OAuth2 was never really supported by the open source version. That additional user database was always a troublemaker.
c) I do know some projects use it. So just shutting it down seems the wrong approach. But I think we should make plans to migrate away from it. Keeping it up to date until then.
The EF will be investigating Matrix (#1558 (closed)) but it's not a firm commitment to provising the service in production.
I have no problems with your option c), but I think the intention should be communicated. Unfortunately, EF doesn't have cycles to participate here, and a stale OS/SSL config is a security liability for us
Are you willing to communicate the intent of c) on, say, the eclipse.org-committers mailing list, and refer back to this issue?
"A bit over 6 years ago, we started a test of Mattermost at the Eclipse Foundation [1]. The idea was to offer a modern, open source chat service to Eclipse Foundation projects. Just recall, at that time IRC was the cool stuff.
It is running up until today and I continue to lurk in some channels. Posting questions/answers myself from time to time. The instance has ~3000 users, ~200 channels, and ~50 active users a day. So it looks like people do use it.
Now the problem, from the beginning, was that Mattermost used an “open-core model”. Yes, Mattermost is open source, but things like OAuth2 were not. The reason why we could never pair this with the Eclipse Foundation SSO service. It also gets harder to maintain the instance itself. Mattermost upgrades had always been super trivial. But it feels like the focus is more an “as a service” experience now. And, updating to the most recent “open source version” got trickier over time.
That led to the situation that the instance isn’t up-to-date anymore. Sure, that is something that could be fixed. But the situation also is that a lot of Eclipse projects did adopt services like Slack or Gitter. Which provide a service that projects need and like. And while the “open core” part of Mattermost feels stagnating, other open source communication projects seem to thrive. Most notably Matrix, which supports a federated approach, just like IRC.
The question now is, what is the point in maintaining a communication platform that is practically a silo? If you want a web based service, I think it is fine to just adopt a service the Eclipse Foundation supports, like Slack or Gitter.
And if you are a fan of open source, decentralized services too, maybe check out GitLab issue #1558 (closed) [2], because the Eclipse Foundation is looking at Matrix too.
TL;DR – We are sunsetting Mattermost at Eclipse. The goal is to shut down the service mid 2023. As communication is essential, we will not just pull the plug! But we also need to find a way to migrate workload (channels) off the server.
If this causes trouble for you, I apologize. It also causes trouble for me Feel free to reach out to me directly (e.g. on Matrix: @ctron@xxxxxxxxxxxx) or comment on GitLab issue #2223 (closed) [3]. Of course, you can also reach out to the Eclipse Foundation.
It was the right thing back then, things have changed, let’s adapt."
Denis Roychanged title from Status update for mattermost.eclipse.org to Sunset mattermost.eclipse.org
changed title from Status update for mattermost.eclipse.org to Sunset mattermost.eclipse.org
@droy@jreimann Hello I manage our community team at Mattermost and am willing to help y'all out if you have an interest in sticking with Mattermost. We can grant the Eclipse Foundation a professional license for our cloud SaaS hosting so that y'all get the benefits of SSO without the issues of managing your own server. Let me know if that interests you and I'll kick things off on our end.
@benlloydpearson I think that is a great offer, and shouldn't be different compared to the other Slack instances that exist. But as I will neither maintain that, nor would be a heavy user, I will leave that up to others.
Just out of curiosity: would it be possible to import the data of the existing instance?
Over the last years Mattermost got more important for interacting with the community of the Eclipse 4diac project. I find it especially good that it is something somehow hosted at EF. I understand the troubles you have and I also understand that it should be replaced. But having something similar for Eclipse projects at EF premises would IMHO be needed. As pointed out above Matrix seems to me a good replacement. Especially if hosting it comes with little effort for the EF team.
Mattermost is an integral part of our team communication here at Eclipse SUMO especially for the persistent chats it offers. Of course we would love to keep it!
There is also a mattermost instance at the Helmholtz foundation https://mattermost.hzdr.de/login which the DLR (my employer and Eclipse supporter) is a part of. I could ask if they are willing to host Eclipse stuff as well and whether they are willing to support Eclipse as OAuth source.
Moving to a closed system like slack is no alternative to me but we might also have a look at matrix and would ask for migration support if the EF decides that way.
I asked the Helmholtz foundation and while they would support us in moving the Eclipse SUMO channel they cannot support the whole Eclipse mattermost. We are still discussing what to do and will definitely try out the matrix. Do you know whether there will be support in moving the current mattermost contents into matrix? Is it possible to configure matrix in a way that some channels are publicly visible (I mean without a login like the public email archive)?